Author Topic: New (Old) Magnavox  (Read 380 times)

electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 09:06:48 PM »
The electrolytic caps are the MOST important ones!  If those die, your stereo may die along with them. 


I don't want to push you into something you may not be comfortable doing.  If you'd like to learn and would like to give it a shot, we are here to help.  We can make you a list of the parts you need.  We can develop a plan to get the parts changed.  Get the amp serviced first, followed by the tuner, then do the changer.  If you want a Multiplex adapter, we can do it last.  I have a schematic for the 59 series tuner if that will help.  We all were inexperienced at one time.  You are not unique in that regard.  These things are not difficult to work on and there is lots of experience on this forum at your service.  Good luck.
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MikeD

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2019, 08:38:47 AM »
I still have not had any luck on the electrolytic caps, C1-C3 on the  parts list for the 8802 amp. I did see the ones I need for C5-C8 , not sue what C4 is. I can find the C1 can looking thing , did see some on good old ebay although the numbers seemed too far off. C2 and C3 are weird , I see nothing like those anywhere in my searches. Also axial/radial , is this just a matter of personal preference.? On the Ci1 again I have found several close with the first two nos. but the last two are way off. Of course the cans all look similar.

Mike

electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2019, 09:42:18 AM »
Axial caps have the leads coming out of each end.  Radial caps have the leads coming out of the same end.  A matter of preference in most cases.  Sometimes, the layout of the chassis and circuit require the use of a certain type.  I generally use axial for coupling and radial for power supply caps.


I can make you a list of the caps you'll need.  That will save confusion.  I'd get them at Sal's.  Easy to order there, and he is an old radio guy and will help if you have a question.  Stand by and I'll make up a list and post it.
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electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2019, 10:41:02 AM »
This list may be in two parts, since breakfast is almost ready....... ;)


Power supply caps:
C1 is the can cap on top of the amp chassis.
C1A--40uf @ 450 volts
C1B--40uf @ 450 volts
C1C--20uf @ 450 volts
C1D--50uf @ 50 volts.  This is the cathode bypass capacitor.  These capacitors should be radial leads.


Capacitors C2 and C3 are crossover capacitors for the speakers, both 16uf @ 50 volts non-polarized.  We won't worry about these right now.


Stand by.  Breakfast is ready.   ;) :)
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electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
I'm back.  Ham and eggs with hash browns, gravy and raisin toast.   ;)   I couldn't miss that!...


The coupling capacitors are only four in number.
C5 is an .0047 @ 630 volts
C6 is an .047 @ 630 volts
C7 is an .0047 @ 630 volts
C8 is an .047 @ 630 volts.
C9 is an .01 @ 1400 volts ceramic.  I'd leave this one alone.


These caps should be axial lead.


You will need a fuse holder, a 1 amp Slo-Blo fuse and at least a 6 terminal terminal strip to mount power supply caps on.  And a 180 ohm, 5 watt resistor for the cathode bias resistor. If you want to re-stuff the power supply cap can, we can walk you thru that.  I do it that way, but using a terminal strip is okay and may be a bit simpler.


You can replace coupling caps using the "hook and loop" method.  You cut the leads from the old part, right at the body, then take your needle nose pliers and make a loop in the form of a "J" on the old lead.  You do that to both leads you cut.  Then you measure the leads on the new part (these will be plenty long and need to be trimmed) make a hook on each end.  Then you join the hooks and squeeze them together to make a good mechanical bond.  Then solder the hooks.  The purists will scream bloody murder, but RCA actually recommended this method, and it was the way I was taught.  It prevents too much heat or mechanical pressure on tube sockets, lessens the chance for a miswire, and lessens the chance for an errant solder blob on a tube socket.  And it is just plain easier in the event of advancing age (!) accompanied with diminished dexterity and eyesight.  Or you can remove the component at the tube socket, in which case you will need a solder sucker or some desoldering braid.  There is lots of room to work, so you should not have a problem.


This should take care of the amplifier.  There are a couple electrolytics in the tuner chassis that should be taken care of.  We can do that after the amp is done.


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MikeD

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2019, 01:23:09 PM »
I'm back.  Ham and eggs with hash browns, gravy and raisin toast.   ;)   I couldn't miss that!...

Don't blame you a bit, sounds good :P


The coupling capacitors are only four in number.
C5 is an .0047 @ 630 volts
C6 is an .047 @ 630 volts
C7 is an .0047 @ 630 volts
C8 is an .047 @ 630 volts.
C9 is an .01 @ 1400 volts ceramic.  I'd leave this one alone.


These caps should be axial lead.

I did see these on Sal's other than C9

You will need a fuse holder, a 1 amp Slo-Blo fuse and at least a 6 terminal terminal strip to mount power supply caps on.  And a 180 ohm, 5 watt resistor for the cathode bias resistor. If you want to re-stuff the power supply cap can, we can walk you thru that.  I do it that way, but using a terminal strip is okay and may be a bit simpler.

So you take apart the can and put 1A through 1D into it. That's why I couldn't find the C1 :-[  I see a few fuse holders on Sal's site but didn't notice a slo-blo fuse. Also I'm still not following where this goes.


You can replace coupling caps using the "hook and loop" method.  You cut the leads from the old part, right at the body, then take your needle nose pliers and make a loop in the form of a "J" on the old lead.  You do that to both leads you cut.  Then you measure the leads on the new part (these will be plenty long and need to be trimmed) make a hook on each end.  Then you join the hooks and squeeze them together to make a good mechanical bond.  Then solder the hooks.  The purists will scream bloody murder, but RCA actually recommended this method, and it was the way I was taught.  It prevents too much heat or mechanical pressure on tube sockets, lessens the chance for a miswire, and lessens the chance for an errant solder blob on a tube socket.  And it is just plain easier in the event of advancing age (!) accompanied with diminished dexterity and eyesight.  Or you can remove the component at the tube socket, in which case you will need a solder sucker or some desoldering braid.  There is lots of room to work, so you should not have a problem.


This should take care of the amplifier.  There are a couple electrolytics in the tuner chassis that should be taken care of.  We can do that after the amp is done.

I will try to get an order together in these next couple of days. I am still trying to get the changer to work with no luck >:(I would still like to see this working better before I get to far into this thing, that is the main reason I bought it. I'm still of the mindset that if this is toast the whole thing may be dead to me. So far all I seem to have accomplished is a pretty cabinet and a place to store records :'(

MikeD

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2019, 01:25:45 PM »
Ooops that didn't work like I thought, hope you can follow. It looks like I better get to the hardware store and pick up a soldering gun. Yep, it's true , I've never soldered a thing :-[

TC Chris

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2019, 02:23:26 PM »

You can replace coupling caps using the "hook and loop" method.  You cut the leads from the old part, right at the body, then take your needle nose pliers and make a loop in the form of a "J" on the old lead.  You do that to both leads you cut.  Then you measure the leads on the new part (these will be plenty long and need to be trimmed) make a hook on each end.  Then you join the hooks and squeeze them together to make a good mechanical bond.  Then solder the hooks.  The purists will scream bloody murder, but RCA actually recommended this method, and it was the way I was taught.

I came late to the "hook and loop" approach.  I used to be diligent about removing the old leads from each lug or terminal. And usually in the struggle to get the old wire un-crimped, one or another of the lugs or terminals would break off, especially when (usually) there were multiple wires going to it.  @#*^!!!.  Finally I started cutting and looping and life became much easier.  I think it produces superior functional results. You're right, the purists want to restuff the old paper capacitor shells.  They want everything to look just as though it came off the assembly line.  I have been saving the old caps to go with the radios so a future purist can restuff, or I can do it when I'm old and retired.  I'm just old so far.

Chris Campbell

electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2019, 02:40:16 PM »
You can get the changer working if you heed the advice you've been given.  You are in a mindset of messing with it, rather than really fixing it.  If you tinker, you may end up with a busted changer and lots of frustration.  If you follow the input of guys who have done this before, you stand a better chance of success.  Without an amplifier, a truck load of perfect changers are worthless.  The changer may be the most important feature to you.  Fine.  It is also the most easily repaired and the most available if it is not repairable.  We are trying to take you in a direction where you are likely to see the best results.  If you want to tinker and throw parts at it, fine.  I won't waste my time and yours doing research and trying to help.  If you try to run it without going thru the electronics, you might fry something after you get the  changer going.  Then where are you going to be?  It is your stereo, do whatever you want.  Just let me know what you want to do.  Fish or cut bait.   ;)
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electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2019, 03:32:45 PM »
Mike, your situation is the mirror of ones every one of us on this forum has been in.  We have all been newbies and we all have bought an old electronic item.  The analogy of an old car has been made hundreds of times.  You buy an old car, 50 or 60 years old.  Are you not going to work on it unless the paint is nice?  Of course not.  You will expect the paint to need help, but the mechanicals are way more important.  If the engine, brakes, transmission and steering need help, what good is fancy paint?  You start with the basics then worry about paint after the engine is gone thru, the transmission gone thru, the brakes repaired and you get a new set of tires.


You are approaching your stereo with cross purposes.  In one thread, you talk about the electronics.  In the other thread, you talk about the changer.  You are confused and frustrated and we don't know where you are going.  Confine the discussion of the entire project to one thread.  Then follow the approach offered by those of us trying honestly to help.  We have all done this before.  We have made the mistakes and are trying to advise you in such a way to help you avoid making those mistakes.  This old stuff is not for everyone nor for the faint of heart.  Most of it is 50 or 60 years old, and has been worn out and dumped by someone.  We rescue them and put some of ourselves into their rehabilitation.  This is an extremely satisfying pursuit.  I can also be frustrating.  This is why this forum was started, so we can help each other thru the frustration and share in the victories.  I will help any way I can, all I ask is that you decide what you want and work with us to achieve those goals.  You have to be the eyes and ears of the project.  Most of what we are "seeing" is the experience we have had.  You need to temper your experience with the experience we are sharing with you.  Getting your changer repaired is an important to us as it is to you.  It is just not THE only consideration to your listening to records successfully.  It should also be safe.  This is why we believe it is important to go thru the electronics first, then the changer. 


I believe Sal is a good place to go for the caps you need.  You may need resistors later and he has what you'll need there.  Gary at VM Enthusiasts is the place to go for record player parts.  He is knowledgeable and helpful and will answer any questions you may have.  There are some other parts I have listed that there are other suppliers for those.  I made a list of parts you will need immediately.  If you'd like, we can make a list of typical parts you'll need for your changer.


To be VERY clear, you should remove the motor from your changer, pull it apart, soak the bearings at least overnight in lacquer thinner to remove all the gunk.  Then dry the bearings with compressed air and lube them with turbine oil.  Not 3-in-1 type oil.  You need oil that does not gum up.  Then you need to replace the motor mounts.  These dry up and allow the motor to not contact the drive tire properly.  This causes all kinds of trouble.  Then you need to send the drive tire in and have Gary rebuild it.  This tire gets hard and slick and will not drive the platter properly.  This will also affect the changer operation by not driving the cycle tire properly.  Then you need to clean off the old, dried out grease off the mechanism and relube so it will work.  Then there are adjustments that need to be made to the set-down.  Then the tone arm pressure (how heavy the tone arm rests on the record) need to be checked and properly set.  Perhaps the trouble you are having is that the tone arm pressure is not right.  ALL THESE STEPS, at least, need to be completed before you have a prayer of having a working changer.  Skip one step,and it may negate all the others.  This is why we are insisting on certain steps in a certain order.  Logical order.  That's the secret.   :)


Plan on spending at least $100 on parts to get the changer going, and that is if the cartridge is good.  You will ultimately need a new needle is you haven't already done that.
I don't need Google.  My wife says she knows everything.

MikeD

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2019, 04:07:57 PM »
You are correct, I needed that ;D. I will step away from the changer for a while if for nothing else than for a sanity break.
I believe from what you are saying the C1 is actually four parts, I need to take the can apart to put new ones in? The others look more or less replace and resolder. I plan on ordering extra resistors (the 220K that was mentioned earlier) just to have them while I am ordering anyway. I see a fuse socket listed as D on Sal's , would this one work , I didn't see slo-blo listed there.

If you could send me a copy of the tuner 59 24 diagram that would be great . I am much more leery of pulling this than the amp, really don't want to break the faceplate or something else while taking it out but understand there may be no other way. I would at least like to order the parts for it at the same time so I have everything ready.

I do get the car analogy. Having restored old cars and still currently working on a newer , '87 wagoneer. And as you stated , I am going through all of the mechanical before I even think about paint .Pint well taken ;)


electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2019, 05:41:34 PM »
Let us start with the old "work safely" caveat.  If you are not sure about safety procedures, we need to have that discussion.  IF you are aware of how to work safely where high voltages may be encountered, please put safety above all else! 


May I suggest that you begin the journey of 1,000 miles with a single step.  Forget about any other component in your stereo except the amplifier.  We should approach this project one component at a time, first the amp, then the tuner, then the MPX, then the crossover networks, then the changer.  Are you planning any cosmetic improvements, or is the cabinet finish acceptable? 


Let's pretend the only thing we need to worry about is the amplifier.   We go thru it 100% then on to the next thing. The purpose for this is:  Let's say we go thru the changer first.  We get it where it will drive, where it will cycle, but one channel is weak or dead.  Where is the problem?  The amp, the tuner, the MPX, the cartridge or wiring?  If we go thru the amp, the tuner, the MPX and the crossovers, and we find one channel weak or dead, we can be 99% sure our problem has to be confined to the cartridge or its wiring.  We have already confirmed performance of the other components.  We have made sure the engine and transmission works, so it the car won't go, we must be out of gas!   ;) ;)


C1 is a can with four capacitors in it.  We can re-stuff it if you'd like.  That makes the neatest job and you don't have to mess with wiring.  I have pictures of that procedure I could post if that would help.  I'll check Sal's site.  I was not aware that he had fuse holders, but that would be great if he did!  A Slo-Blo fuse is like they use in TV.  It will tolerate a momentary overload such as the inrush of current in filter capacitors.  A regular fuse might blow when the filter caps charge.  A Slo-Blo will tolerate the inrush current.  If it sees a continued overload, then it will open the circuit.  Since you are going to bury the fuse under the chassis and will have to remove the amp to change it, you don't want it to blow when you don't have a problem.  We'll source a Slo-Blo.  We are not quite there yet.  We can use a regular fuse for test. 


The tuner is not hard to pull.  The glass on the five-knobbers comes off with the tuner.  IT is not heavy, just awkward.  You have to work on the top as well as the bottom of the cabinet at the same time.  It comes out from the top, I believe on that one.  You take that wood-grained metal trim plate off, then the removal procedure should be obvious.  If you have a question, post a picture and we can comment from there.


I'll get you a copy of the 59 series tuner schematic.  Let me have your email address and I'll get it to you.  Give me a couple days.  I'm deep into "honey-do" this weekend.   ;) :)


There is nothing on this that should give you any trouble if you can restore a car.  Just a different kind of challenge.  You can't play records on a Jeep!   ;) ;)


I see in your previous post you want to order parts for the tuner at the same time.  If you could put your order off for a day or so, I'll make a list of what you will typically need.  Should we run across something overlooked or unexpected, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.


Thank God for the edit feature.   ;) ;) :) :)   The filter cap can has four caps in it, but we will only restuff it with three.  That is all the room you have.  We will move the other cap, the cathode bypass cap, into the amplifier.  Just so you know. 


Sal has added stuff since I was to his site last!  "B" will work just swell for a fuse holder.  The Weller soldering iron he has would be a good one for a good price.  The test leads he has would come in handy.  Those things are getting hard to find.   :) :)


For coupling caps, you would want the "Axial Film" capacitors.  For electrolytics you would want "Radial Electrolytic" capacitors in the noted voltages.
I don't need Google.  My wife says she knows everything.

MikeD

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2019, 07:51:20 PM »
My email is eltrut63@yahoo.com, no rush I've spent the better part of the day honey-doing myself. I think I have a pretty good list for the amp , was wondering if some of the caps are the same in the tuner then I would order extras of each. I'm thinking or ordering an extra or two of most anyway to cover the learning curve. 

The cabinet itself is in near perfect condition and really needs nothing , a big reason I bought it. Everything on it including the speaker cloth looks new.  So the Amp will be next  :)

Thanks again
Mike

electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2019, 08:35:20 PM »
I thought I remembered you said the cabinet was nice.  You are lucky.   :)


We'll get this show on the road.  I'll get that stuff scanned and get it to you.  I thought I had it on my computer, but NOOOO.   ;)


A suggestion might be to get a package of those two-or three terminal terminal strips.  I found the picture of my ST amplifier and I only restuffed the can with two caps and put the other two on a terminal strip under the chassis.  I need to go back thru my notes to figure out why.
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electra225

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Re: New (Old) Magnavox
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2019, 10:55:54 AM »
If you are trying to access Sal's site, it is down for some reason.


https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=356084
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