Author Topic: Idler restore experiment?  (Read 2251 times)

hermitcrab

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Idler restore experiment?
« on: June 26, 2016, 10:51:09 PM »
I have a Zenith with the 2 gram VM changer, it works OK but idler is hard as rock....it will play records but stops dead ( slipping) while changer is in action... I have watched the videos on using the oil of wintergreen to supposedly return the rubber back to pliable...going to give it a try , nothing to lose if it doesn't work.... I will just send it to Gary at VM for a rebuilt one.... I will let everyone know how it works or doesn't work.... 
Elton

Consoleman

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 07:50:42 AM »
Looking forward to hearing your results. NOS or refurbished idlers and wheels are pricey.
Mark

TC Chris

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 08:21:21 PM »
To restore an old tape recorder pinch roller, I mounted it on a hand-held axle (an old nail) and held it at a slight angle against a belt sander.  The slight angle made it scrub a little so it removed the hard, glazed surface.  If yours is dead, it's worth trying.  Just don't get too carried away and remove too much. 

I fixed the idler on an old Lenco turntable by removing the old rubber tire and replacing it with a big O-ring of suitable size (rubber diameter and ring diameter).  On the Lenco, a variable-speed turntable, the tire was triangle-shaped in section but the round section works just fine. 

Chris Campbell

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 09:17:05 AM »
The o-ring idea is interesting. If you're sensitive to pitch, the diameter of an idler or wheel has to be pretty close to original or you won't be able to listen to it.
Mark

Motorola Minion

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2016, 02:56:57 PM »
Good thread here - I have a product in a 6oz plastic bottle from MG chemicals of Canada. Its flammable and toxic, so I use it sparingly as it will probably be unavailable in the future. Got it from Mat Electronics and use it to clean and soften idler wheels which are otherwise functioning.

I have never done a prolonged soak but that may be needed for some like my one Magnavox Micromatic wheel that is so hard it makes noise as it slips. every cure has its limits and Ill see what this one is :-\  I cant sink $40 into every phono for a rebuilt tire but Ive made a few exceptions on my V-Ms, which have much less contact area than the Mags do.
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Dave

Larry H

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2016, 03:54:33 PM »
These Micromatics have two wheels you have to replace, idler and drive wheel, and even at the VM site, that totals up to $60, including shipping.
--Larry

hermitcrab

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2016, 07:17:58 PM »
Well my first obstacle was finding the oil of wintergreen.... forget your usual walgreens or CVS stores they don't carry it.... I found mine at a local health food place where they carry vitamins , etc...10 bucks for a ounce of it... So oil of wintergreen and rubbing alcohol, let the wheel soak for 4 days, funny the solution turned a weird reddish color , don't know why , but the rubber was soft enough to actually be able to flex the rim of the idler , before it was hard as rock...it did not remove the glaze, so I stuck it into a drill and sanded the rim to remove the glaze.... and the idler is working.... it did have a noticeable thump when it was running, now that is gone , but the idler will still slip on reject and stop the turntable.... not every time , but occasionally....I can put ever so slight pressure on the idler while the changer cycles and it works fine, maybe the spring that puts pressure on idler is weak? but any way, it will soften the rubber ... is it a permanent fix? only time will tell I guess...   
Elton

electra225

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2016, 07:34:03 PM »
You could have repaired it properly for less than $30.
If it ain't broke, call me.  I can break it....

hermitcrab

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2016, 09:54:48 PM »
Yes I understand that, the whole point was to see if this method would work...
Elton

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2016, 04:07:38 PM »
These Micromatics have two wheels you have to replace, idler and drive wheel, and even at the VM site, that totals up to $60, including shipping.

And the Webcors have an idler and 3 turrets as you know, $100 plus!
Mark

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 04:09:27 PM »
Good thread here - I have a product in a 6oz plastic bottle from MG chemicals of Canada. Its flammable and toxic, so I use it sparingly as it will probably be unavailable in the future. Got it from Mat Electronics and use it to clean and soften idler wheels which are otherwise functioning.

I have never done a prolonged soak but that may be needed for some like my one Magnavox Micromatic wheel that is so hard it makes noise as it slips. every cure has its limits and Ill see what this one is :-\  I cant sink $40 into every phono for a rebuilt tire but Ive made a few exceptions on my V-Ms, which have much less contact area than the Mags do.

I have some Rawn Re-Grip which is meant for tape deck and copier rubber wheels. It works, for a day or so.
Mark

Motorola Minion

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 09:52:59 AM »
I had such a bad example and the soak did not work. Rubber Renu does smell like wintergreen and there is major flammability warnings on the bottle.

The rubber was literally baked, probably due to the motor being stuck ON and being left for hours, days weeks etc. I sent this wheel to V-M for a new one, which will go in a family members '65 Imperial's changer.

Funny, this was the same Mag W603 changer that had the noisy motor where the core plates buzzed. But I fixed that with lacquer thinner and more spray-on lacquer finish.
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Dave

hermitcrab

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2016, 11:37:37 AM »
Well the oil of wintergreen works , but it too is only a temp fix, after a week it was right back to slipping again, I know the diameter of the tire is 1.88 inches, so I put the wheel in a drill and sanded the protruding rim of the tire right off ,  I happen to have a grab bag of rubber belts of all sizes...  found one that I could slip on the tire and super glued it to the wheel , it actually works like new ... at least I can put off spending another 30 bucks on a console that will be only played a few times a year for now..
Elton

TC Chris

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2016, 01:56:40 PM »
Next time, unless the whole rubber tire is rock-hard, try sanding odd just the glazed surface.  Sometimes they will work satisfactorily.

Chris Campbell

Consoleman

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Re: Idler restore experiment?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 12:18:10 PM »
Well the oil of wintergreen works , but it too is only a temp fix, after a week it was right back to slipping again, I know the diameter of the tire is 1.88 inches, so I put the wheel in a drill and sanded the protruding rim of the tire right off ,  I happen to have a grab bag of rubber belts of all sizes...  found one that I could slip on the tire and super glued it to the wheel , it actually works like new ... at least I can put off spending another 30 bucks on a console that will be only played a few times a year for now..

That's a great trick, thanks.
Mark