Author Topic: A collaro f200c family hand down  (Read 552 times)

Marshall

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A collaro f200c family hand down
« on: December 14, 2018, 05:26:14 PM »
Greetings from the Central California coast.  I live about 100 miles west of Los Angeles and am retired.  My son has the vintage c.1960 'Marshall Fields' branded stereo console.  The turntable and motor don't turn but the radio plays. 
I've removed the turntable, serviced the motor and am about to start work on the record changer (groan!). 
I lack a service manual.  It's similar to the Conquest but the tone arm is wired differently. 
Cheers!
Marshall

TC Chris

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 06:26:28 PM »
As you probably know, Marshall Fields was the big Chicago department store.  Like other major cities' department stores, it was bought up by a conglomerate that sucked out the cash and closed it up.  People in northern parts of Michigan viewed Chicago and Detroit as the appropriate big cities--people like me, from the eastern side, gravitated toward Detroit.  On the west shoe, people looked to Chicago.  My father grew up in Manistee, so he knew Chicago, and he did he medical internship there (and met and married my mother).  My favorite sport coat is a nice wool blazer with "Marshall Fields" on the inside pocket, one that I inherited from him.

Chris Campbell

Bill

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 06:37:44 PM »
Welcome, and yes Marshall Fields was some store.  It was the J. L. Hudson's of Chicago.  In my life time I have been to both store's, and I'm sure I'm going to get comments on my statement.  Nothing could hold a candle to J.L. Hudson's in Detroit.  Not even Macy's in it's day, or Wanamaker for that matter.  Sorry, just my opinion.

Bill


TC Chris

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2018, 12:51:30 AM »
Hudson's was elegant and top-notch.  It was the world's largest retail establishment under one roof, as I recall.  And I just peeked and verified that another of my Dads sport coats that I wear is from Hudson's, the real Detroit store.  The story of Detroit's decline is a vast tragedy and the loss of Hudson's is one element.

And here's a Magnavox connection.  I recall as a kid visiting Hudson's with the parents.  We ended up in the hi-fi department where they had some E-V Patricians (look 'em up--they're huge).  This was not low-end stuff. I can't recall what else they had but that's the only time I've ever seen Patricians.  The sales person asked my Dad what he had.   He replied, "Magnavox."  The sales guy replied that it wasn't quite high fidelity but it as pretty close.  I've never forgotten the speakers or that comment.  That was about 60 years ago.

Chris Campbell

Marshall

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2018, 02:26:26 AM »
This one was bought in the Boston store by my mother-in-law.  Here's what the guts look like with the back off.  The Collaro is out to work on.  I need Maintenance and Service manual for the F200c.  The motor is same as the Conquest motor so no problems there.
Cheers! 

electra225

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2018, 09:09:58 AM »
I can't read the sticker, but that instrument is a Magnavox.  Single ended amplifier.  Huge speakers for such a small amplifier.  A picture of the front would give us its Magnavox cousin.  There should be information in Downloads on that changer.  If it is like all the other Conquest changers I have, the upper bearing in the motor is stuck and the motor mounts and drive tire need replacement.  I was not aware that Magnavox rebranded any of their stuff.


If I'd read better, I see you are concerned about how the tone arm is wired.  Could you post pics so we can see what you're doing?


L.S. Ayres in Indy was the big deal when I was growing up.  I bought a Burl Ives record there in 1962 and paid $4.95 of my birthday money for it, big money to a 12 year old kid.  They had a HUGE record department and used a Newcomb record player for mono records and a promo stereo, built my RCA, for stereo records.  You could play the record before you bought it.  My aunt went to Hudson's one time on a trip she won on radio.  She was the topic of gossip on the party line for a month.  She was a celebrity.... ;)


I worked on a Hudson console radio for a guy one time.  He brought me two Zeniths and a couple car radios, along with the Hudson radio.  It was a ten-tube superhet from about 1934 or so.  I believe it was built by Belmont.  Really crappy cabinet, as I recall.  It was a rebadged Belmont model.  The only Hudson identification on the radio was on the bezel around the dial.  The rest of the markings were pure Belmont.
I don't need Google.  My wife says she knows everything.

Marshall

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2018, 07:31:17 PM »
electra225,
I love your footnote about Google.  I know how that goes.
I have the Conquest service manual.  My concern is the tone arm on my F200C is different so I wonder if the changer is different too?  I'm  working up courage to take the changer off the stand and putting it back on in only a day or two.  IMO it's better to have as little time between apart and together again.  Hey, it's just springs, circlips, nuts, levers and gears.  What could possibly go wrong?  HA!
The tone arm can be unattached easily enough (screws and bolts only).  After that I can separate the changer from the platform.  I don't want to do this unless I have documentation for it.  Again, I have the Conquest papers but not papers specifically for the F200C.
Some other info: The tags under the mat say Model F200C, SerNo 453461, Ref No. 6004.
The electronics are RETMA 232.
The 3 smaller tubes are Magnavox (made in Gt. Britain) while the large one is Magnavox made in USA.. 
The "tube box" is labelled 196-16. 
I'm attaching some photos.
Cheers!

Bill

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2018, 07:10:32 AM »
Marshall,

Your Marshall Fields stereo is definitely a Magnavox.  I have one just like it.  Same changer, amp, and even the same speakers.  The only difference, I do not have the tuner, and mine has Columbia on the front.  It's a small little petite cabinet in Mahogany sitting in the sun room.  The only thing I did to my changer was pull the motor for a grease and oil change, kind of like servicing a car, minus the filter. ;)  After that, it runs smooth as new.  Complete recap as well, and I added a fuse.  ::)  There's a story about fuses for later.

Once you have everything rebuilt, it will bring someone years of enjoyment.  I listen to mine a lot.  As a matter of fact, it played Christmas music all day Saturday.  :)

Could you please provide a photo of the front of your cabinet?

Bill

electra225

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2018, 01:22:56 PM »
Marshall, my friends call me Greg.  Good to make your acquaintance.  :)


Welcome to the forum.  Be sure to ask Bill about adding a fuse.   ;)


Good luck with the changer.  I would not take one apart if you gave me every one ever built.  No way, no how.  I'm chicken.  I cheat.   ;) :-[
I don't need Google.  My wife says she knows everything.

SeniorSteve

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 10:21:44 AM »
Hello Marshall, I'm not a prolific poster, but I can tell you that you've come to the right forum.  The people here are very willing to help you out.  It's a wonderful crowd here.

Enjoy,
Steve

Marshall

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2018, 08:44:13 PM »
Marshall,

Your Marshall Fields stereo is definitely a Magnavox.  I have one just like it.  Same changer, amp, and even the same speakers.  The only difference, I do not have the tuner, and mine has Columbia on the front.  It's a small little petite cabinet in Mahogany sitting in the sun room.  The only thing I did to my changer was pull the motor for a grease and oil change, kind of like servicing a car, minus the filter. ;)  After that, it runs smooth as new.  Complete recap as well, and I added a fuse.  ::)  There's a story about fuses for later.

Once you have everything rebuilt, it will bring someone years of enjoyment.  I listen to mine a lot.  As a matter of fact, it played Christmas music all day Saturday.  :)

Could you please provide a photo of the front of your cabinet?

Bill
Bill,
Here's the top and front view.  (Apologies for the photo distortion... close ups in my garage.)  The tag says "MarshallField & Company" in fancy script.
Cheers!

Motorola Minion

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 01:07:58 PM »
Nice console there. The 1SB... model number might mean "store-branded" The speakers look similar to a 1959 Mag Stereorama and the radio looks like Mag's last tube model radio offerings, before astrosonic.

I have a theory about Magnavox (RETMA 232) using the single-ended EL84 from Mullard.
Motorola and Zenith also had single-ended 6BQ5/EL84 offerings that used European-sourced tubes like Amperex and Siemens.

Compared to RCA (274) and Tung Sol (322), GE (188) and Sylvania (312), the European-sourced tubes were more durable and a bit more power, like 8 watts in the SE configuration. Developed by Philips, most German table radios were using EL84's in the mid-50s. The advantage over the 6V6 was higher voltage gain, so a second pre-amp stage could be eliminated.

 I have collected many borderline weak 6BQ5's and noticed the change in bias voltage when comparing them. They are of use when Im tracking down a problem. 

The US-made 6BQ5s were used in TV sets for both audio output up to 5 watts and vertical deflection amps, which they did well. But when placed in an amp like this, did not sound so great and unless you adjusted the bias resistor in the cathode to get it back up to 10-11 volts, would wear out fast under hard use. I have seen enough worn-out RCA and Sylvania in SE amps that looked like they had low hours.

First thing, I hope your tubes are not weak, they will make fine music even with those big speakers.

I have several consoles with the F200 changer and I probably need to do the full disassembly, clean and lube. You probably have the EV26 ceramic cartridge and that is a great match to your amp.
Tubes - Magical - Tubes

Dave

Bill

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 07:28:02 PM »
Marshall!

Thanks for the photos.  We pretty much have the same thing, except mine says Columbia on the front.  And you have the tuner, and I don't.  I have three knobs on the front of the console, Bass, Treble, Volume.  I also do not have any record storage.  My left top/lid cover is fixed.  Just the right slides to reveal the changer. Yours is more deluxe.   :)   I'll try over Christmas to snap a photo of mine and post. 

Thanks for sharing.

Bill

Marshall

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Re: A collaro f200c family hand down
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2018, 01:56:55 AM »
My thanks to all for the informative posts.  After the record changer is serviced I'll get into the electronics more fully.  The radio plays is about all I have done so far to evaluate the electronics. 

I have it from a UK forum that this is a Conquest wired for stereo (thanks to Michael Maurice), so I have all the documentation I need for the changer. 

Marshall